Fears it may consume many

 He spoke, as a usual, on the problems of the nation – politics, crashed education standards, youths’ wrong orientation and many others. He above all, warned that the nation is overdue for revolution and fears that should that happen, many would be swept away in the torrent. Before such day comes, he solicited that it would be better, safer, wiser and more effective that the nation’s leadership deliberately turns things around for good.
To the best of our knowledge, no government in Nigeria ever waited this long to appoint ministers. Is that part of the change?
I don’t know; I am not the one who made the appointments. You may ask the persons who are responsible,
Okay, do you see it as part of the change?
How can you say part of the change, or not part of the change. It’s idiosyncratic. it has nothing to do with a nature or matter of change or no change.
Nigerians were expecting technocrats and new people in the cabinet of this administration. You were also rumoured to be in the list? What happened?
Of course you said it was rumoured. I didn’t contest nor did I win the election. When I win the election you can come and ask me.
Argument over the real problem with Nigeria continues to gain weight every day.  What is it that is the problem with Nigeria that seems insoluble?
I think the problem as I see it, and to be fair in making a point, I zeroed myself into what is the problem with Nigeria at age 18. So, technically speaking, we have been in what is the problem with Nigeria for more than 40 years. I am entitled to therefore form some general opinions from experience.
I think the biggest problem Nigeria has is that it has the biggest unserious elite. It has an elite that is not focused on the common good, because if we really have serious elite, many people who are around throwing their weight and moving around in the country should be hiding in shame, inside some holes.
I am saying this because we and even them see what their mates did elsewhere, in the developing world. I am not even talking of the developed world. Our own elite doesn’t even have shame, they still think the country owes them something. So, I think it’s unserious elite that has not managed to build the consensus for progress.
Secondly, I think we have very self centered elite. One of the things that I spend most of my time doing today is trying to develop the next generation -the young people, people that would really appreciate what leadership means.
I try to essentially culture this young people into an understanding that leadership is essentially others-centered behaviour, not self centered behaviour. If you are obsessed with self, if every time you see something, what first comes to your mind is; what’s my own in this? What’s my profit?, what’s my loss?, you are not a leader, because leadership is others-centered behavior.
Real leaders spend more time thinking about others and their good before they even think, sometimes of themselves. A classic leader is Mother Theresa, and you know what? Look at how exceptional and a place she has in history. How many of the people who cared about themselves, the narcissist and egoistic leaders have a place in history. So, the truly self-giving leader is not one who so give that they will gain or lose, because, really in giving, you will be actually getting.  But we have elite that are so obsessed with self, that we can’t really call the elite, just a collection of people on evil mission, and they can’t build the nation, talk less of making progress.
And you don’t think the lower class contributes to that?
Of course, there is this famous interview that Dr. Baba Ahmed conducted with Nelson Mandela. It was on internet and everywhere. I want to recall what Mandela said on why he was angry with Nigeria. He said that Nigeria people are aware of the kind of people who lead them and they have not done anything about it. Nigeria is a country ripe for a revolution, and it might keep looking impossible until one day it happens. My fear is that when it happens, it can just consume innocent, guilty, all kinds.
Is it possible to have revolution here with all the divisions inherent in Nigeria?
The real problem with Nigeria is this repeated statement we keep making, such as, “is it possible?”, ”is it impossible?” When that kind of revolution happens, it will not be that people sat down and planned it. It will be an example of a scenario where somebody’s driver just slaps another person. The person shouts and everybody latches on it and before you know it, there is an anarchy, and that’s the fear that I have for Nigeria.
What practical efforts have you made with regard to your time in training next generation?
I set up a centre called Centre for Value in Leadership. I engage in all kinds of programmes. On daily basis I am working myself 19 hours a day, on all kinds of initiatives and directing young people to see more clearly. The progamme takes a variety of platforms. There is one that we call the role model forum and every Saturday of the month, we get two chief executives to share the experience they had in their career ascendance. What values they have and what they did to overcome the obstacles to get to where they are. So, that is part of the role model forum.
Another one that I like very well happens to be the most popular now because of the attention it attracts. You know, Nigeria has a way of forgetting people who made real contribution. In this country, the only value you have is when you are in the position of authority, such that, if your daughter is getting married everybody shows up. If you are having a birthday, the whole of Nigeria turns up. The day you fall from power, everybody abandons you. And that’s the culture. We have people who when Nigeria was still Nigeria, made remarkable contributions, most times, quietly without huge noise.
So, we began a programme called leader without title series colloquium, of course, the concept of leading without title is not original to me. It’s a Canadian called Robin Sharma who had written a book titled: “The leader who has no title.” The point Sharma tried to prove is that all of us should be leaders and not peculiar to only people who have positions of authority. So, this particular programme is aimed at people who are over 70 years old, who have made a remarkable contribution in their time, maybe they must have been forgotten.  and so, we find them, celebrate them, then we host a colloquium around a subject that is close or about  their area of career interest.
For example, I was so humbled, it shocks me because we do that sector by sector. For law, Prof. Itse Sagay and Chief Mrs. Folake Solanke, who was the first female Senior Advocate of Nigeria were chosen and showcased.  I could not believe Prof. Sagay’s emotional outburst. He said that no honour he has received in his life could compare to what happened that day. I was also shocked that somebody as distinguished as Chief Solanke could say that she don’t have any titles and this is the only honour she has received. But, are we doing it for those people? No. We are doing it so that young people can see that those who do right have a time for honour. We are doing it to prove that delayed gratification in any field or thing should be emulated.
This is because what our society has done in the collapse of culture in Nigeria is that, we are only today’s people. The only people that matter are only today’s people. The moment we stop being people who can give contracts or money we will just disappear from people’s esteem, respect, reckoning and all that. And that is not the kind of society we should build. So we encourage young people in such that they would want to do outstanding things that in the autumn of their life, people will say, our society is the cause of what we gave ourselves. That is the purpose of the origin of the colloquium series.
We also have what we call, Young Entrepreneurs Initiative (YEI), a forum for mentoring young entrepreneurs. So we have a variety of these programmes we run. I know some people might ask, how do you sustain these activities? We keep on finding creative ways to support these activities. And we do those things to encourage the young people.
As a person with vast experience in political and economic strategies of the world, do you know of any nation of the world where government goes to share money every month?
Well, fiscal federalism is about transfers in the tiers of government. There is always transfer in the tiers of government, but this business of people sitting down and waiting for a day to come for FAAC account meeting is a big concern. I have spoken about this severally. When you talk about nations of the world, remember that Nigeria was not like that before. The Nigeria that made progress and development was built on the bottom being the most important level of government, on improving the level of life of the citizens in the sub national level in the 1960s and 1950s in our country.
And in the colonial era, the concept of regional Marketing Board was the fulcrum of wealth creation. Then, we had Eastern Nigeria Marketing Board, Western Nigeria Marketing Board, Northern Nigeria development company( (NDDC) that grew out of the marketing board, and most of the growth that took place at that era came as a result of the work from those marketing boards.
As Dr. Pius Okigbo writes in his Nigerian Public Account, at the dawn of self government in 1956/57, these marketing boards had accumulated huge surplus in their accounts. They had individual accounts in London. Eastern Nigeria had its own account, Northern and Western Nigerian had their individual accounts. And there was nothing like federation account.
By 1960, the account reserve had dropped down to nearly zero, so I actually enjoyed asking the students.  What do you think happened to the money? so they would say “Haaa, they chopped the thing naah.”  And I would respond to them, so you see, you are the 1980s and 1990s, and 2000 people, so all you have learnt is that they have chopped the thing.
What actually happened is that the new young leaders of Nigeria, many of them, in their 20s and 30s, decided that Nigeria was not industrialized and wanted to rush into industrialization, and they trickled down those reserves to industrializing their regions.
The first move was the Ikeja industrial estate by Western Nigeria. Michael Okpara decided to reply with two, located in Aba  and Port Hacourt. Kaduna responded with an Industrial estate in the North. And these industrial estates began working and competing for who will bring progress to their people. By then, the federal government was essentially supported by what these regions pay as a portion to the centre and not collecting from the centre to go home. They made money, created jobs, developed their economy and contributed the portion to the federation, and that’s how the federal government sustained itself from what was contributed from the regions.
The primary source of revenue was from the sub-national government until we came into the military era where all these things started. First of all, the nature of military government was different, because of the command tight. It decentralized the authority to the generals, the colonels set and ran the stage taking orders from the centre. Then an unfortunate thing also happened, oil discovery in 1956. And in 1973,with the Israeli war, oil prices quadrupled, because of the increase in the oil prices, there was a lot of money coming from oil. And these monies by virtue of constitutional instruction gave central regime power of the monies to the centre.
So the regional governors came with their begging bowls to be given a prebend. This is why Richard Joseph’s interpretation of Nigeria politics came with a book titled “Prebendal Politics” you know, like a Vicar handing out pre-bends to his assistance vicars. So, political prebendalism became the political economic culture of Nigeria, and that’s what we are still suffering up till today.
From your espousal, is it possible to grow a nation with this prevailing trend?
Everything is possible in life, but whatever choice you make has a certain discipline that must go with it. We keep talking about private sector debt growth, but there are countries where public sector dominated policies have worked. But it requires a certain kind of discipline, which unfortunately does not exist here, that is why in more recent Nigerian history, there has been tendency not just to turn to public sector or private sector but to abdicate completely.  Last year or so, government was totally abdicated from the private sector, it was not just a matter of talking public private sector growth. It was a matter of abdication. If you say this one, they will ask you not to worry, that private sector will do it. The government was completely denied the service of doing anything.
So, the way we are today, we don’t have a strategy, you don’t get anywhere without a clear map of where you are going. And we don’t have one, that’s the truth of the matter. There was a consenting effort made during the vision 2010 process, the vision document, which was never implemented, was held in a breach. When President Olusegun Obasanjo came, it was completely rejected because it was done under Abacha, then we came up with vision 20:20:20. Yet, if you look at South East Asia, if there is anything that comes to its development, it’s the private sector’s strategy, which takes the cue from national strategy.
Where there is unclear national strategy, where there is unclear certainty of strategy because the direction of government is not clear, you can’t talk of business strategy in that situation. The flexibility strategy boils down to not committing to anything such as government contracts; don’t do this or that because since government will not pay in term; then inflect the contract; at least if they delay payment, you must have covered your money from the initial one quarter pay or as such. And that’s the kind of strategy that dominates the business approach in our environment.
In a clear national strategy, everybody knows where the country is going. Maybe, if there is discipline among the elite in implementing this and tasking premium, companies can commit to long term development strategy, so is not surprising therefore that some major players in the Nigerian economy, don’t even own one building, everything is rented. This is because they don’t want to be prevented from going away in the next 24 hours if they have to.
So, right now, as an APC member, does it mean APC still came without clear cut ideas on how to run the economy?, At least to set a goal on how to run the nation?
You can develop something, you can write something down, but the thing you have written down is only worth the paper you have written it on, until somebody begins to believe it. There was a clear effort to try and build up a strategy, like you said, I played a role in that process, but until we see that it is executed, we will still have to watch and wait.
Is it likely of execution?
(Laughs], You will only be expecting me as a magician to know if it will be executed, but since am not a magician, you don’t expect me to say yes or no.
There is this interesting story in your book about a young man, who was giving a recommendation letter to see a very big man that was working in the Nigeria Ports Authority, while seated there, the man has already listened to him and was getting set to comply, but while he was still waiting to be attended to, news came on radio that that man who gave him recommendation letter has just been removed. The boss at NPA quickly turned to the man and said, “Young man! your time has expired, your man that gave me these note is no more relevant so you have to go.” What do you think created such tradition in the society that makes one expire immediately after leaving an office?
It’s because we don’t put the premium on character. If we matter because of our character, who we are and not what we are, there will always be good standing. This is a society that relativizes the human person and worth. If somebody is relative, he has worth just because of what you can get from him. And if that continues, everyone becomes relative, because you treat people not the way they are but with no dignity. Just because they are people you can use, people you can get something from.
You have a society of people who are relative and so, we poison culture and the outcome is that you don’t have trust in that kind of society, and without trust, you cannot sustain economic development, these are the heart of business, these are the heart of things that will lead to progress.  You know that this man, if he gives you his word, something must have gone extraordinarily long for him not to keep his word, then you can trust him. When you take a look at a typical example, such as in international trade, standard operating price in international price in international trade is 90% credit. At least if you order something from England, normal business term applies. They will ship your goods to you within 90 days. If you are dealing with a Nigerian, people have to have the money in their hand before any transaction commences.
What is it that shaped your thought about life? Is it an individual or circumstances?
Many things affect the way we grow up. I think the first major impact besides parenting, because I had very stoic, hardworking parents; I will dare say God fearing, was because very early, I was influenced by a group of Catholic priests and brothers of American origin.
I was an altar boy at age seven in a town in the present day Zamfara State run by Dominicans. From age seven, every morning, 5.30 I come to serve mass and it unconsciously built me .Another good part of my early childhood was continuous reiteration of certain kind of values. Leadership thoughts of John F. Kennedy; ideas of Carmelots; and I learnt that what makes for greatness is serving others.
Remember it was the same Kennedy who said, “ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.” So this is the full dose I got as a 7, 8, 9 year old boy. The stage where I did my education from primary one till I enrolled in the university, were Catholic schools where there is a traditional kind of discipline. So that cannot have but contributed to it.
I have also had many other influences getting more mature, getting older, because you see, conscience can become sealed in everything. Unless you continue to have the opportunity to get information for yourself, you eventually have sealed conscience. I am not a good person. I just had as a matter of fact, the opportunity of certain values and education; a kind of education up to graduate level, that socially re-enforced the kind of values that makes progress.
You have been a teacher, you would have also observed the saddening trend among young people and poor quality education. What did you find out from your days, coaching and grooming younger ones, as the cause of the collapse of our education system to the level it is?
I think the admission system has left it the way it is as a result of many influences. Looking at it fairly, you can’t say, this one failed or something like that. Funny enough some of those influences were originally not intentional but because we were not put down through discipline. The consequences is devastating, one of them is the desire of certain military group at a point in our history to open up the universities for many more people. Universities were quite elite orientated when they first came. University of Ibadan being the first tertiary institution in the country, the quality was so high that when the commission was set up to look at high education in Nigeria, the educator from Oxford who chaired that commission was known to have commented that the quality of education in Nigeria was as good as the best in the world. Around 1962, it was harder to get into the University of Ibadan than it was to get into Harvard. Of course, University of Nigeria came and became the first autonomous university in the country with a different philosophy based on the American system. Obviously it showed very quickly, the university could produce more practically, intelligent and superior graduates. It became a problem solving platform for the society and when the military came, two things happened. Military found that the main opposition they had was not the politicians, or the political parties, the main opposition they had were the intellectuals.
So the military faced two clear issues, one was to confront and break the academic community, which led to the gradual exodus of intellectuals from Nigeria. The first confrontation was in the University of Lagos. Many of the accommodations in Unilag were broken and many were asked to pack out. Second thing that happened that hit them especially after the Gowon overthrow, and the Obasanjo/Murtala Muhammed populist orientation, was that they wanted to open access to education to all and sundry.
When I went to the University of Nigeria shortly after the civil war, there were only five universities in Nigeria and the admission was a couple of hundred people literally,  per year. It was extremely few, because universities were centres of excellence, they could afford to make investments, they did things well the way they were meant to be. It was indeed centre of excellence. When they decided that there were going to be no tuition, no fees were paid for university education, shortly after we left, the idea that university education was free attracted many. Yet, they couldn’t provide appropriate funds, which led to further exodus of university intellectuals.
Also, when we went to Nsukka, university students were staying two in a large room, now we think about twelve or more people are sleeping in those same rooms. Rooms that we were apologized to, for being two in its accommodation now has such crowds.  Now, when you get to the toilets, you find out that if you can survive that kind of toilet, your humanity is already damaged. So, the necessary investment failed to be made at the tertiary level and then it began to percolate down.
The most important part of education is primary school level. If you don’t get it right at the primary level, what you get at the university level is garbage out. So we can’t underrate primary education.
In those days, primary schools had best teachers and were respected. They maintained and helped build the community. The village headmaster then was like a community god. The values and morals of the community were invested in him and he was committed to do all. But today it is no longer obtainable, people no longer respect or even value them, and as such, they have reduced their commitment.
You recently lampooned a journalist for reporting your views on Buhari’s lopsided appointment that went viral. Was the article actually written because the journalist still claimed to have got it from you?
Sometimes I wonder on things that happen in this country. Some years ago, someone wrote an article titled: Why is Patrick Utomi still in Nigeria. The author was saying that all the people he thinks are like me have left. Why am I still here, why should I put myself through the punishment of being in this country? I think the article was written during Obasanjo’s time. Though I can’t remember the name of the author, he was however, very kind to me but that was not the kind of kindness I need, asking why I am still in my country. Everybody who is serious like me had left, why am I still here? But sometimes I really ask myself, what am I doing. I was basically a reporter myself, and everything I know about what makes for serious journalism is being violated every day. And I ask, why?
But this particular story, although fully told, so I don’t need to rehearse it. Ordinarily, I have respect for people and their dignity. That is why I accept everybody. I try to cope and understand people’s challenges. So, one of the diseases I suffer from, is taking phone calls. I pick anybody’s call without knowing the caller. And it often shocks people. I hold my own phones and nobody takes my calls. Though its tasking and tedious because all kinds of people call me, but I try as much as I can to be accessible.
I was in a meeting sometime ago, and my phones kept on ringing. So I picked and told the caller that I am in the middle of a meeting and that he can call back later. He started pleading to speak with me for just a quick second, and that he is a journalist, ”what do you have to say about this lopsided appointment,” and that time, it was just few appointees, I think service chiefs, chief of staff and few others. I echoed shooo!, everybody is from his village? These few persons? My friend let me do what I am doing, but can they do the job? If they can do the job, let him appoint everybody that can do the job. You know that kind of exclamation remark.
I didn’t even read the paper the next day, my attention was later drawn by friends because it was on the internet and everybody was firing. The thing that struck me was the absence of figuring out the system. When I was a young reporter in 1977, there was no such thing. Then there was no computer and google where you can just access information at your convenience. Then I would make sure I verify on anything using the NIA library before writing a story. This was why in 1977, as a youth corps member, I wrote this story that led to cabinet reshuffle that shook this country. The story was titled “Radio, Kaduna controversy.” The then Minister of Information, Ayo Ogunlade was made to resign and that was under Obasanjo.  He later resigned and was later the minister of National Planning. I think under Abacha or so. But you see, that story went far because I backgrounded it on that controversy
So, in this age of internet, what I expect from that kind of reporter, as  to say, “attribution is the sole of journalism.” Maybe he was looking for a story to write and he wanted to attribute it to Pat Utomi. But the least you could have done is to research on what Pat Utomi has said previously on appointment, that will help him. He could then say that in my article in the past five years, I had said this or that, but today, I am saying this or that. At least with that, you won’t be out of context. The problem is that today, people are getting lazier and lazier and anything goes.
You mentioned on a lighter note about retirement, what is your plan of retirement age?
Well, I can remember then of the lectures I receive from Dr. Pius Okigbo, whom I was very close to. Actually, the main and free education I had was from Okigbo and Dr. Ukpabi Asika.
I receive good free lectures from them at least two times a week, which I referred to as free education by tuning. Anytime I visited them, I would tune them with questions and they can go as long as giving you three hours lecture. So, I would also want to extend such lectures to people because as a man of free education, I will be happy doing for people what they did for me. At least in Enugu, there are several universities around. I would visit UNN today, visit ESUT tomorrow, and towards the evening I will drive one hour home.  On Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, I would spend them in the village with my people, run private development initiatives that could also create jobs and help people explore opportunities and then return to Enugu on Sunday night.
I think there is a great need for a university during your retirement period, any plan for that?
Yes, I am actually looking at an institute I have been working on quietly, that would be a postgraduate institute focusing on technology, business and management. It will be a kind of mini MIT that is focused on policy and decision making. And I hope that it becomes a kind of major retreat for many, and would be possibly be sited in Asaba. I would give leactures there and also invite other dignitaries to do so, possibly some of the old ones giving free lectures. After my lectures or any other thing I do, I would quietly return to Enugu, live there and have some peace like my old friend, Okigbo did. I am steadily working towards it and pray that I find money to build a home in Enugu where I would retire into.